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 Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)

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PostSubject: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:34 pm

Prime incarnations. Neutral battlefield.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:47 pm

aayy lmao
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:32 pm

Case for Darth Vader

Physical Capabilities: To put it simply Darth Vader is a tank. He has shrugged off lightsaber burns, survived explosions, and has even survived being buried under a mountain. Vader is more machine than man, most of his vital organs have been replaced by implants and his limbs are prosthetic. He also requires a breathing apparatus. Contrary to popular belief Vader has been witnessed on numerous occasions moving at superhuman speed and implementing acrobatics when necessary. Vader is leaps and bounds ahead of Revan in terms of physicality.

Force abilities: Vader is highly underrated in terms of his force abilities. Vader is a gifted force user and his telekinesis is no exception. He has been witnessed crushing tie fighters in mid-flight. He has lifted extremely large boulders with ease and has even collapsed a temple. Vader was prodigious with force strangulation. He has crushed strangled multiple victims at once and he is capable crushing subjects hearts. Vader is an exceptional telepath. Beyond the basic mind trick, he could use the beast control ability and is capable of contacting subjects across vast distances. He has used the force to unwillingly probe the minds of unwilling victims. He could employ this against force users and non-force users. In a combative sense, Vader is capable of freezing subjects in place. Vader was also a capable user of tutaminis and he has observed blocking blaster bolts with his bare hands. Vader is an extremely versatile force user who can simply bring more to the table then Revan.

Lightsaber abilities: Anakin Skywalker was a talent with the blade. Developing into one of the best duelists in history. When Vader was burnt alive on Mustifar, he was forced to completely revamp his fighting style. Vader's new style was far more conservative, basing it on a combination of all seven forms based on Djemso. Vader's custom form was created to make up for the deficiencies that his armor created. Vader used this custom form to kill many Jedi throughout his time as a Sith. Vader was also adept with Dun Möch. Dun Möch was used to supplement one's lightsaber combat. It instilled doubt and fear with your opponent drawing on their insecurities. I believe Revan is a superior duelist to Vader; however I think Vader's Dun Möch puts him on par with Revan.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:46 pm

Will have up a response by Saturday morning.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:41 pm

Quote :
I believe Revan is a superior duelist to Vader; however I think Vader's Dun Möch puts him on par with Revan.

just an hero already
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:50 pm

Quote :
Physical Capabilities: To put it simply Darth Vader is a tank.



Good to know!

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He has shrugged off lightsaber burns

Six instances of this come to mind. Three being in the Star Wars: Purge comic, one in the new Star Wars: Vader Down series, one in the Star Wars: The Force Unleashed novelization, and of course the classic hit from Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back.

The lightsabers flashed again-and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armor that both of them had been waiting for. Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armored throat. Vader staggered backward, gloved hand upraised to the smoking wound.

There was no blood. Instead of pressing the attack, the apprentice stood his ground. Despite himself, he was as surprised as his former Master clearly was.

For a moment, the only sounds were the twin humming of the lightsabers and the wheezing of Darth Vader's respirator.

Then the Dark Lord laughed.

It was an awful sound, empty of humor and full of mockery. In it, the apprentice heard a decade and a half of torture and abuse.

Anger flared. He lunged forward. His former Master barely blocked the blow. A second scored a deep wound across his black-clad shoulder. A third stabbed deep into his thigh.

Darth Vader reeled backward, servos whining in his injured limbs and lightsaber shaking.

The apprentice gripped his lightsaber in both hands and held himself back. Anger was familiar and powerful; it also clouded his eyes when he most needed to see clearly.

Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master."

― STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED

---

But Luke did resist. He lunged at the Dark Lord with a vicious blow, bringing his sizzling laser blade to crash onto Vader's armor and sear through to the flesh. Vader staggered from the blow, and it seemed to Luke that he was in pain. But only for a moment. Then, once again, Vader began to move toward him.

― STAR WARS: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Exhibit C: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4997876-vaderlightsaberblow.png
Exhibit D: http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/18/71/58/99/vader_10.jpg
Exhibit E: http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/18/71/58/99/hurt10.jpg

So, the above is what I'm assuming you are referring to in full. I don't doubt Darth Vader's durability, obviously, but I don't that it's going to be a major factor in the battle. Galen Marek's blow to Darth Vader's armored neck turned the tide drastically in his favor. Other Jedi, like Luke Skywalker and Tsui Choi, chopped off the Dark Lord's hand in a single swipe. Darth Vader's back and shoulders seem to be the most heavily armored areas, which doesn't take that much reasoning to figure out.

I think it's also worth noting that, based on his armor in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan, it appears his armor endured a relatively deep lightsaber gash on the Battle of the Foundry. His mask and whatnot seems to have endured great injury too despite little damage to his actual face.

Quote :
survived explosions,

Yes, he has. It's extremely impressive stuff. Revan's done better though. Revan directly tanked a concentrated Force energy blast that threatened to span out across an entire kilometer, and in the process killing all of the eight protagonists (including, for example, Darth Nox, who can backhand lightning from the Dark Council member Darth Thanaton). Revan was back on his feat in literal seconds after he was hit, seemingly unfazed. Shortly after portions of his Force essence were stripped by the Machine Core but that didn't stop him from trying to engage another strike team shortly thereafter.

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Vader is more machine than man, most of his vital organs have been replaced by implants and his limbs are prosthetic. He also requires a breathing apparatus.

Thanks for the information, I didn't know who Darth Vader was.

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Contrary to popular belief Vader has been witnessed on numerous occasions moving at superhuman speed and implementing acrobatics when necessary.

Yes, he has. So has Revan... and named Jedi Padawan #15945. Cool!

Quote :
Vader is leaps and bounds ahead of Revan in terms of physicality. 

Darth Vader's strength failed to completely dominate old Ben Kenobi or Ahsoka Tano, nor was it even mentioned in the fight with Starkiller that I recall. Given Revan can augment his physicals to take on entire strike teams and handled the Emperor's Wrath with rather contemptuous ease, in which "few opponents can" even "withstand the rage-fueled blows," I doubt the "leaps and bounds" aspect just as I doubt its relevance.

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Force abilities: Vader is highly underrated in terms of his force abilities.

I doubt it. 

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Vader is a gifted force user and his telekinesis is no exception.

I'd wager we are all aware of Darth Vader's insane telekinesis.

Quote :
He has been witnessed crushing tie fighters in mid-flight. He has lifted extremely large boulders with ease and has even collapsed a temple. Vader was prodigious with force strangulation. He has crushed strangled multiple victims at once and he is capable crushing subjects hearts. 

Darth Vader's strength is undeniably in Telekinesis, and I'm not really going to act like Revan has displayed  telekinetic environmental manipulation on the same degree as Darth Vader (i.e. throwing rocks, bringing down structures, crushing inorganic objects), but when they both step into the ring against their opponents, Revan has drastically superior showings against actual Force users. Despite fighting countless Jedi over his career, the best feat we've seen Darth Vader perform in a fight was choking and discarding Rahm Kota (impressive but not changing mankind). In comparison, Revan has shown to blast back Emperor Vitiate. While it's true the Sith Emperor's power and attention was focused on Revan's mind, throwing back a Palpatine-class figure while in the midst of combat is an enormously impressive feat, and something I doubt Darth Vader could do given their depicted disparity in power and authority. More impressively, he temporarily ripped through the Force barriers of Satele Shan, Darth Marr, Lana Beniko, and the Hero of Tython twice during his battle on the Forgotten Terrace, and then later during battle completely dominated them (alongside many others bar the Hero of Tython due to the intervention of Revan's Spirit) to the point that they were incapacitated and their ability to call upon the Force blocked. He threw them toward him, threw them back against a pillar, and then held them in a Force Whirlwind-esque suspension as he "slowly destroyed" them. Darth Vader simply hasn't shown this level of Telekinesis, nor am I sure that he can defend against it. Regardless, it's clear Revan is a match for Darth Vader on this field.

Quote :
Vader is an exceptional telepath. Beyond the basic mind trick, he could use the beast control ability and is capable of contacting subjects across vast distances. He has used the force to unwillingly probe the minds of unwilling victims. He could employ this against force users and non-force users. 

Revan's telepathy allowed him to influence a centuries old "god-like" creature of the dark side who had been plotting to destroy the Jedi and the Galactic Republic for all his life to not only postpone the war for three-hundred years, but once the war started to abruptly end it once they reached their prize - and then give said prize back along with half the galaxy. While bolstered by the powers of Malachor V, he influenced entire armies of Jedi to swear allegiance to him and his new Sith Order. He could also broadcast Force visions into the mind of Tari Darkspanner from across the galaxy, influence Hutts way before his prime, etc. 

And in regards to Darth Vader, there's no way in hell is he going to have any impact on Revan, who resisted the combined powers of Emperor Vitiate and the Dread Masters for three centuries, both of which are dark side masters far, far beyond Darth Vader's level in regards to illusions, sorcery, telepathy, etc.  


Quote :
In a combative sense, Vader is capable of freezing subjects in place.


So could Darth Malak and Bastila Shan while drastically amped with the power of the Star Forge. Tell them how it went when they tried to do that to him there - oh wait, they didn't even bother trying. Revan resisted the Star Forge itself, which "devoured" those who could not (i.e. everyone besides him and Darth Malak).

Quote :
Vader was also a capable user of tutaminis and he has observed blocking blaster bolts with his bare hands.

Revan personally absorbed and reflected back lightning that threatened to turn Meetra Surik and Scourge to ash with his "raw power." Said lightning then completely stripped through Darth Nyriss' Force barter and left only "a pile of charred ash." 

Quote :
Vader is an extremely versatile force user who can simply bring more to the table then Revan. 


Revan's knowledge on sorcery expands that of an entire planet. Also, the contents within his holocron was said to be beyond Korriban's entire archives of Sith knowledge. He knew powers that Darth Bane couldn't even wrap his mind around, and created others like the thought bomb. He can turn pure dark side energy into primitive dark side aberrations, wields Force Drain and Force Lightning to mastery level, can Teleport in the midst of combat, knows how to form dark side nexus and use the power of Force Corruption, Drain Knowledge, Alter Environment, Essence Transfer, Mechu Macture (which I muse may be useful against Darth Vader given your own admission he's more machine than man), Force Stun, Force Slow, etc. 

So no, Revan's far greater versatility is not only important to the fight, but I muse it's going to be the deciding factor. Revan regularly uses batshit crazy powers in fights. A Force Lightning Storm that is wiping out rancors might turn the tide alone. Add in Revan's Force in Balance that allows him to unleash the Force "in its purest form" or channel it to become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine." How is Darth Vader going to handle ancient Sith magic and sorcery or, like I said, Mechu Macture (which I recall Obi-Wan Kenobi used to escape a potentially lethal situation in the Mustafar fight). He's simply taking on an arsenal too great. And with Telekinesis, Darth Vader's only saving grace, Revan is on par with if not greater than him at that as well!

Quote :
Lightsaber abilities: Anakin Skywalker was a talent with the blade. Developing into one of the best duelists in history. When Vader was burnt alive on Mustifar, he was forced to completely revamp his fighting style. Vader's new style was far more conservative, basing it on a combination of all seven forms based on Djemso. Vader's custom form was created to make up for the deficiencies that his armor created.

So what? Given your unnecessary admission that he completely "revamped his fighting style," why is Skywalker's technical mastery with a blade relevant? I'd say most advanced combatants have a fighting style revolved around focusing on their strengths and forming adequate defenses against personal shortcomings. 

Quote :
Vader used this custom form to kill many Jedi throughout his time as a Sith.

Revan has literally cut through entire armies of Dark Jedi while his ability to call upon the Force was potentially completely negated. Darth Vader defeating Jedi X on day 153 and then Jedi Y on day 178 means little to me in regards to a combatant who's done probably more in less time.

Quote :
Vader was also adept with Dun Möch. Dun Möch was used to supplement one's lightsaber combat. It instilled doubt and fear with your opponent drawing on their insecurities. however I think Vader's Dun Möch puts him on par with Revan.

Given Revan's a monster tactician and has simply absurd mental willpower, there's no way in hell is Dun Moch going to do anything but make him stronger. Passion is one of Revan's most defining character traits and goading him into embracing that (such as mocking him for his failures, etc.) is really just solidifying your own death, especially given Revan has no morals as of Shadow of Revan. He would, and tried to, wipe out half the galaxy to simply kill one person. 

Also, Revan is a complete master at Dun Moch and physiological manipulation, rivaled only by Palpatine himself. The entire Mandalorian Wars consisted of Revan playing on the emotions of Jedi to get them to join his cause. By the end of the war, thousands upon thousands were behind him with his new Sith Empire. He could take Dun Moch to such a level that he taught others how to sever one's connection to the Force by employing it. Read below:

"Make him doubt himself, his beliefs, or his intentions. Such things disrupt connections to the Force - and death soon follows. Generally, this was done by broadcasting strong emotions while thinking about something else. It was a curious technique, but it seemed to be effective in blinding Jedi. Whether guilt, lust, fear - they act as mental interference, making finding the true intentions of the broadcasting meatbag difficult."

― HK-47 (STAR WARS: KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC II: THE SITH LORDS)

So, yeah, we got Darth Vader's failure at a Dun Moch against Luke Skywalker and Starkiller against someone who can literally kill people by telling them how they're a "pussy".

Quote :
I believe Revan is a superior duelist to Vader;

Most people's arguments for Darth Vader being superior to Revan is based them arguing that Darth Vader is the better duelist, from my experience. Regardless, Revan's bringing far more Force powers to the table, some of which Darth Vader has never seen before, has on par if not greater Telekinesis, and by your own admission is a superior duelist. So, his victory seems to be rather obvious, doesn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:45 am

based on the arguments in this thread Vader wins
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader (Chimp) vs Revan (Ant)   Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:22 pm

OldMaster wrote:
based on the arguments in this thread Vader wins

:woah:
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